On niqaab
The niqaab, pictured above, is causing a big stir in Britain, according to a New York Times article. And what one woman was quoted as saying in the article is precisely why, to me, niqaab is a tool of separation:
“I feel empowered,” she said. “They’d like to see, and they can’t.”
More information on the niqaab debate:
June 24th, 2007 at 12:01 am
We don’t care what non-muslims think about niqaab.
By your words here you have proven that you have never had a conversation with a woman who wears niqaab yet you judge her character.
June 24th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
Personally, I don’t care if someone CHOOSES to wear the “Niqaab”. What I have a problem with is someone doing it because they are forced to or because a man thinks that is their duty as a Muslim woman. Our body is made in God’s image. Must we cover up his creation just to please some man made rule or because a man can’t control his thoughts?
What bothers me is a quote from “A Neqaab FAQ”. “The eyes have been described as ‘the windows to the Soul’ and they are very expressive. Regretfully some men see every glance by a woman as inviting, and therefore many Niqaabi conceal their eyes so as not to tempt or distract men who may see them in public.”
Why should a woman have to cover any part of her face so that a man is NOT distracted? Why doesn’t a man cover his face? Last time I checked, it takes both a man and a woman to achieve a child. The WOMAN is the one giving birth to that child. You can’t have one without the other. Women and men should be equal in all aspects of life.
I would be ok with covering your face if there is a legitimate reason for it. An example would be, living in the desert. You need to protect your body and face from the harsh elements. Covering your face would achieve this protection. However, in that situation, both woman and man would be covering. EQUAL is the key word here.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
Nicole,
In Islam we don’t believe our bodies were created in Allah’s image, astaghfirAllah!
In Islam we believe in a societal responsibility. You can deny the differences between men and women if you want but in Islam we do not. We know that men are far more visually stimulated than women. We know that there are differences between men and women and we embrace the differences. I for one am happy that I am different from a man.
In Islam we also know and believe that men and women will be judged equally on our faith and works for our deen.
In Islam we love our brothers and sisters in Islam. We acknowledge the responsibility we have as a society to help each other. No Muslim has said that a man does not have to guard his desires, no Muslim has said that a man can gawk and lear at a woman. The man must lower his gaze as a woman must lower hers. If a Muslim sister can help a Muslim brother avoid gaining sin then she should as he should do the same for her. We do this because we love each other. We believe this to be a ‘legitimate reason’ and whether others do or not is irrelevant.
You don’t have to agree or understand this concept of societal responsibility.
Muslims know what equal is, we also know what differences are.
As far as women being forced to wear niqaab. There is presently only one country (KSA)that has a rule regarding the wearing of niqaab being mandatory AND that is only in certain parts of the country.
Obviously some men force their wife to daughter to cover and that is a family issue similar to controlling men in every society.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
Fadna,
Yes, you are correct in saying that I don’t have to agree or understand the concept of societal responsibility for Muslims. However, I am a firm believer in having the freedom to choose. For example, I am a Christian. I should have the right to believe whatever way I choose. You are a Muslim. You should have the freedom and right to believe however way you choose. I don’t believe in forcing any religion onto another.
My point isn’t to upset or judge you. My point is to always have a choice. Personally, I believe choice is what creates a true and humble heart. If you are forced to believe in one type of religion because the country tells you too, then how is that giving of yourself freely and honestly?
My husband is from Morocco. He was raised Muslim. I respect his family and do not push my own beliefs onto them. We simply respect each others choices and leave it at that. However, spending a great deal of time in Morocco, I have been able to see first hand how many Moroccans say they are Muslim but only because it’s the law. On the flip side of that, I have also gone to a Christian church and seen my fellow brothers and sister “claim” they are good Christians yet they were just out the night before getting drunk and sleeping around.
In every religion you will find fault within the sinner. I’m not here to judge anyone because I of all people have made my fair share of mistakes. I just want equality and freedoms for everyone. It breaks my heart to turn on the news and watch these Saudi women not have the freedoms that other Islamic countries have. It is that kind of situation that makes me angry. I have learned a lot by being married to a Moroccan. I have enjoyed watching the women of Morocco gain more rights. In Morocco, most of the women would only wear the Hijab. I would see on the rare occasion someone wearing the Niqaab and then there were Berber women that would wear something completely different. Morocco is still diverse even though its an Islamic country.
June 24th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
Talk about religion! It’s just a cultural habit, let’s leave it to that. (In Morocco, only old women do wear it.)
A Real muslim is not the one who wears the appropriate clothes, not even the one who goes five times a day in the mosque. Everyone can do that! it’s quite easy.
June 24th, 2007 at 6:02 pm
I am not sure where the forcing a religion issue comes into this conversation. I agree no one should be forced to wear niqaab. Personally I don’t know anyone who is but wouldn’t argue that it happens.
I am not upset with you. Conversation is always interesting and often passionate and that makes it fun.
When you speak about being forced into a religion because the country tells you I am not sure where you are referring to. I live in Morocco myself and this is not the case here. In most Muslim nations this is not the case.
It seems that maybe you are not giving enough credit to humanity and the ability we all have to use our own brain and make our own decisions. People have the power to make their own decision and the resources are available to at least 98% of the world. Even if a government does try to hide data, information of some sort it is just not possible to do this 100%. Most humans by nature are curious and will find away to learn about the world around them.
I am not sure which rights you are speaking of in Saudi (please don’t reference the driving issue, lol, because actually IT IS NOT A LAW that women can’t drive there). Have you been to KSA? It is a very nice place to be and a very nice place to live. The limits on women are few and mostly compare to what is limited on men also. Covering the face, as I stated in the earlier post, is not mandatory in the entire country and not observed in many places.
I am sure we believe the same about being equal but Muslims don’t believe equal means the same. There is a huge difference between these two words and I think GENERALLY speaking that westerners like to think they are the same word.
On a side note, the niqaab in Morocco is much more common in the south (my family is Berber). It isn’t a surprise to see a niqaabi where I live but I do understand in the north it is far between for them to see one. When we spend time in Casa, Fez, Meknes, Rabat people encountering me are generally a bit surprised and I do become a bit of a side show it seems. Even in Fez a beard is quite rare and people stare at my husband and quite often speak to us in modern standard Arabic verses derija, they seem to think we are from Arabia.:)
Peace
June 24th, 2007 at 7:39 pm
Actually, Fadna, I have had conversations with niqaabis, but only in the U.S. (and with the women in Meknes who beg, but that’s another story). I also know that niqaab is NOT a religious requirement. And, from my own experience in Morocco, I even understand a little bit why a woman might want to wear it, given the way men behave on the streets. Regardless, I don’t think it helps society - it only makes men treat women who don’t wear it (or hijab for that matter) worse.
June 24th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
it’s in the air isn’t it; i just posted on this a few days past. My feeling on the issue after further discussions with Q is that a Muslim woman in the west is under the same obligation as I am when in the Middle East, Asia, and North Africa to be culturally sensitive. She is under the same responsibility as I to NOT “shout ‘fire’ in a crowded theater’ in this political atmosphere.
June 24th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
Fadna,
Yes, Morocco may not Officially require you to be Muslim but I dare you to go up to the local police or some type of government authority and say to them that you are not Muslim nor believe in the Islam way and would like to become a Christian or Jew. Then tell me that the Moroccan people have a true choice. Foreigners are able to believe in whatever way they choose but not Moroccans.
My husband is also Berber and comes from the Southeast of Morocco. Nobody in his town wears the Niqaab. In fact the Berber women wear this black with bright colors over their heads called Tasebnit. Each tribe has its own color.
No, I have never been to KSA. I do know that women are not aloud to vote (but have read they are trying to change that by 2009). Women are still not aloud to leave their home without express permission and/or company of an immediate male relative. Lastly, although it may not be an Official law that women can’t drive, it is still a driving ban imposed by the kingdom’s ruling male elite.
I quote from http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/01/25/saudi-women-driving.html
“The most high-profile female member in the Saudi royal family says her country’s wheels need a revolution or two — with women turning them.
Princess Lolwah Al-Faisal, the daughter of a former Saudi king and sister of the current foreign minister, said Thursday that if she could change one thing about her country, she would let women drive.
Her candid remarks during a public session of the World Economic Forum were a rare and direct challenge to the driving ban imposed by the kingdom’s ruling male elite”
I do not wish to continue taking up taamarbuuta space because I do not wish to disrespect her. We can just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
June 24th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
Taamarbuuta,
sorry, i think i accidently posted the same thing twice because my computer was acting up. sorry about that
Nicole
June 24th, 2007 at 9:02 pm
I thought by nature of a blog we have already agreed to disagree. That is the fun of a blog and issues raised like this one.
I surely didn’t say everywhere in south Morocco they wear niqaab. I said it is more common down here in the south. I live here, I see it daily and NOT just old women. I live in the south and I wear it myself. I have many friends who wear it here also, come to the mosque one night for maghrib and you’ll see no less than 25 in the one mosque.
BTW Yahia, I am not old, lol.
I will disagree with you on the Islam and Morocco thing since this could be so different from area to area. I think maybe you haven’t spent enough time here, especially in the last 3-4 years, to see how these things you claim are laughable (sorry, not laughing at you just at the idea of what you claim).
As far as KSA, like I said, the things that are not allowed or put upon women are much like those of the man. Women can’t vote…mens vote means little. Women not leaving the house without the permission of husband or father, this is part of Islam, if you don’t like it that is fine. This is a private matter worked out between a husband and wife like any other matter in the family. It isn’t like daily a woman is getting some piece of paper saying she can go. This is something a couple works out. This is part of my own marriage but I don’t have to ask my husband if I can leave. We already know this in our marriage that we trust one another, he knows where I go and I know where he goes, the end. No more asking
Surely KSA has progress to make, this I don’t disagree with.
Taamaarbuuta, since you are not a scholar or educated in Islam I would leave the fatwa’s to others. To say that niqaab is not a religious requirement is incorrect. There are views on this both ways though scholars don’t claim the other one wrong as you are doing. Not to mention your statement that niqaab makes it worse for non wearers…..oh just reflect on that one.
Anyhow, I am sorry if you have been offended. I found the discussion interesting and informative. I enjoy this kind of discussion.
Peace
June 24th, 2007 at 9:22 pm
Fadna, are you implying that a non-Muslim cannot have had an education in Islam? I don’t profess to be an expert, but my university education is based around Islamic studies, and I’ve read the Qur’an in its entirety. Not to mention I can ask Hamza anything I don’t understand (and he agrees with me on this one, except for the part about niqaabis freaking him out)
The imam I’ve spoken with the most back home is Palestinian and believe me, I asked him about hijab and niqaab - hijab being a big barrier to why I’m not Muslim. He expressly told me that he does not see niqaab as a requirement. I don’t deny that others say it is (as it may appear from my previous statement, my apologies for that), but having read the Qur’an, I don’t see anywhere that implies niqaab is required.
Anyhow, your comments on KSA show me that you are as ill qualified to speak of human rights as you believe I am to speak of fatwas. Yes, it is part of Islam that married couples must ask each other permission before travel and such - I understand that - but the problem is that KSA does not give men or women the choice to NOT be Muslim if they don’t want to. Neither does Morocco to some degree - As Nicole said, a Moroccan can’t just up and convert (I realize that very few want to, but it’s still a basic human right in my opinion).
And sorry for the non-sequitor, but Yahia, you made me laugh! While I don’t dispute that it might be different where you live, it’s true that all the niqaabis in Meknes are old women and beggars (or they never leave the house, because I’ve never seen anything different)
June 24th, 2007 at 9:23 pm
And Fadna - I wasn’t offended! I enjoy this type of conversation as well, provided you stop making assumptions about my education.
June 24th, 2007 at 10:38 pm
I don’t know where I said a non-muslim can not have an education in Islam. I am 100% sure you are not qualified to give commentary on the Qur’an and issues of fatwa. No offense, most people are not. I have also read the Qur’an and I see clearly that covering the face is obligatory it is all in who is defining one particular word in the Qur’an. I did acknowledge that scholars differ in this.
I also agreed that progress needs to be made in KSA. I don’t see becoming a Muslim, Christian, Jew or whatever as something that needs to be declared to any government. No one in any country announces their conversion to a religion to the government as it is a personal issue. Should they be able to? Sure as a citizen of the planet one would say yes.
KSA being the birthplace of Islam falls into a different category in the minds of the majority of Muslims. I understand many disagree with that.
Being a conservative personally and religiously verses what I am politically (liberal) I agree with you on many points. But within Islam there are guides and it is believed that a government (and the individuals within that govt.) are responsible on the day of judgement for their people. It is a difficult line to tread I am sure.
I don’t know who Hamza is so I don’t trust anything he says, lol
And I am sorry, I didn’t mean to imply you are uneducated. Frankly I figured you had been educated in higher studies just not in an area where you Islamically are qualified to say this or that is wajib or not. Forgive me if anything sounds rude, I have a tendency to write straight forward and sometimes forget that inflection is not in the written word (well certain words it is LOL!).
On a last note…..:))) I happened upon your blog after starting at a friends and clicking on a link from hers to another and then onto another and then onto another etc etc etc! I think 20 blogs down the line I ended up here. You have some fun posts.
June 24th, 2007 at 10:47 pm
aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh, my whole post gone!!!
June 24th, 2007 at 10:55 pm
Basically what said was I didn’t mean to imply you are uneducated. I figured you did have a higher education just not in Islam were you are qualified to comment on whether something is wajib, fard, etc.
No offense meant, most people aren’t!
The thing with converting in Morocco or KSA is that no one is going to go to a government official and do this. Should they be able to? Sure. Does it make a difference in life? No.
Though I will adamantly disagree about Morocco….do this and any official is going to laugh in your face and tell you to get the hell out of their face, lol.
KSA, for Muslims, falls into a different category being the land of the birthplace of Islam. We believe that a government and the people within that government are accountable on the day of judgement for those things that happen in their country that are within their control.
I do see in Qur’an where covering the face is required but your seeing different doesn’t surprise me because it is all based on the definition of one word which can be slightly different. That is okay!
I don’t know who Hamza is so I won’t take his word for anything :)) I am sure whoever he is he is a good guy.
Peace
June 24th, 2007 at 10:59 pm
Your post isn’t gone, it got caught in my SPAM filter! I tried to e-mail you to the other post you wrote (I deleted it but saved it in my email), but your email didn’t work.
Anyhow, I wasn’t trying to come from a pedestal with what I said about Islam - but I think that in pure social commentary, I’m more qualified than say, George Bush, to talk about Islam!
I know that no one in KSA would go to a government official - what bothers me is that if a Saudi woman say, doesn’t want to be Muslim, she can’t even leave the country without her family’s permission. That isn’t fair, straight out. She should at least be allowed a one-way ticket out. Moroccans on the other hand, can leave if they don’t like it.
Hamza’s my husband
I refer to him so frequently that I figured you knew - so now you do!
June 25th, 2007 at 12:36 am
Fadna,
“I will disagree with you on the Islam and Morocco thing since this could be so different from area to area. I think maybe you haven’t spent enough time here, especially in the last 3-4 years, to see how these things you claim are laughable (sorry, not laughing at you just at the idea of what you claim).”
Humm, actually I’ve been to Morocco several times within the last year so laugh all you want. As you pointed out, it can differ from town to town. I trust in what my husband says. After all, he is from Morocco too. I trust what his entire family says; after all, they are Moroccans and currently living there just as you are.
Let us take marriage for example. If an American woman wants to marry a Moroccan man (in Morocco), she doesn’t have to convert to being a Muslim. If an American man wants to marry a Moroccan woman (in Morocco), he must convert to being a Muslim. That is a requirement under Moroccan law. Now is that what you call having a choice?
Sure, maybe it is going to take some time for things to filter down to smaller towns but in the larger cities, women are having more freedoms. Choosing not to wear the traditional Muslim clothes and even opting to wear 2 piece swim suits on the beach (Casa for example).
“To say that niqaab is not a religious requirement is incorrect” Now this I must laugh at. I have spoken to several Muslims on this topic and they including an Imam I know have all said that it is not a requirement in Islam. Please provide the evidence to back this up.
From my own personal research, the only thing mentioned in the Qur’an is that a woman must cover her head (the hijab) and cover her hands. I have not read anything regarding covering the full face even with the exception of the eyes.
Since you are the all knowing Muslim, please provide us with concrete evidence to support your theory. After all, you are more educated in this matter then anybody else!
June 25th, 2007 at 12:46 am
Niqaab is not considered fard by most Muslims. I don’t hate it, but I don’t find it necessary. It’s basically not my business. I hate it when Muslims or non-Muslims alike make comments about how I dress, so how can I do the same to someone I don’t even know or do know?
I have seen some niqaabis like the one on your picture and I have seen some who wear pants and a regular colored scarf wrapped around part of their face. Sure the one decked out in black looks ’scarier’, but not all niqaabis dress in a big black bag. Some do it stylishly. I don’t consider wearing niqaab, though I wear hijab. And I don’t know what’s so arrogant about it making a woman feel empowered. I always laugh when men tell me they really wish they could see my hair. Anyways, I don’t understand your discomfort about it. I’m sure many would remove it in private around you. I guess I just wish people wouldn’t make such a big deal about a piece of fabric.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:58 am
Also, to the other people in the post. The Qur’an does not mention that a woman must cover her face or especially hands. It does use the word khumur which is a ‘headcovering’, to cover your chest area.
Also, I like to see the pictures of Moroccan niqaabis, I think it’s fascinating how colorful their clothing is.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:59 am
So if it isn’t fard, then why the big fight to wear it in Britain? And along the lines of what Lady McLeod said, if women have the right to dress that way in Britain, should I have the right to walk down the street in a bikini?
You know me pretty well, Rachel, and you know that hijab used to make me a little uncomfortable, but I’ve found a way to completely accept it because I understand it better, I have friends who make that choice, etc.
But covering one’s face is just something I can’t get my head around. It bothers me. Anyhow, you don’t have to understand, I was just being honest, which is better than pretending it’s okay or pretending my concern lies in the “dangers” of niqaab (which I will go as far as to say I think they’re bullshit).
June 25th, 2007 at 1:02 am
Colorful Moroccan niqaabis? Must be somewhere other than here; as I said before, the niqaabis in Meknes are either elderly or begging (which baffles me - if you’re too modest to show your face, aren’t you too modest to beg?)
June 25th, 2007 at 1:39 am
I apologize for getting one information incorrect. I misunderstood my husband about one thing. The Qur’an doesn’t say you must cover your hands. I apologize for providing wrong information.
I have never seen a colorful niqaabis but I guess that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. The only colorful head piece that I have seen is among Berber women. It is called Tasebnit. It’s actually quite beautiful. My mother in law doesn’t wear it but has it in her home.
As far as why make such a big deal over a piece of clothing, I agree. However, being that I’m not Muslim, I can’t possibly understand the reasons why a Muslim woman would ever choose that so I can’t judge her on something I don’t know anything about.
Like I have said before, I only care about having the freedom of choice. What you do with that choice is your business.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:10 am
Fadna said: “If a Muslim sister can help a Muslim brother avoid gaining sin then she should as he should do the same for her. […] We believe this to be a ‘legitimate reason’ and whether others do or not is irrelevant.”
To reiterate what I think: niqaab is not the real solution. Some civilizations (mostly past ones) had women with naked breasts. It’s just a matter of habit and conditionning. It’s not women’s duty to regulate men’s feelings towards them; not that way anyway.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:14 am
@ Yahia - That’s precisely where any animosity I have toward certain cultural practices comes from - not from a wish to make people stray from their faith or to bash them, but out of the sincere feeling that it is the responsibility of men to behave like gentlemen. While one can never expect that from every single man, there are plenty of cultures, historically and today, where men don’t need women to cover their faces in order to earn their respect.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:41 am
http://www.maion.com/photography/morocco/berber_cities.html
http://www.thefaithclub.com/sbooks/images/20061001225458_13.jpg
http://www.kcts.org/productions/kctsconnects/archive/300/images/338_morocco1.jpg
http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/48/77/23517748.jpg
http://img.slate.com/media/1/123125/2083985/2112643/2127661/051026_FAS_Asra-Nomani_01tn.jpg
http://www.danitadelimont.com/results.asp?Image=AF29+JME0196&pos=31
http://www.danitadelimont.com/results.asp?Image=AF29+JME0102&pos=51
http://www.danitadelimont.com/results.asp?Image=AF29+DGU0034&pos=66
http://www.indexstock.com/store/Chubby.asp?ImageNumber=979640
http://www.indexstock.com/store/Chubby.asp?ImageNumber=393719
http://www.indexstock.com/store/Chubby.asp?ImageNumber=393717
http://d2ssd.com/www-source/travel/2006moroccotrip/Sandy_women&hats_Image-E47E37A2DB6711D9.jpg
June 25th, 2007 at 2:44 am
I don’t care if you wear a bikini down the street.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:46 am
Oh, btw did you get those pictures I posted here? It hasn’t shown up. Anyhow, I love those jellabas/niqaabs. That’s what I imagine when I hear Morocco and niqaab. Not the ‘Saudi’ version.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:50 am
To the anonymous commenter from New York:
You are right that I did not study Islamic studies in university. If you know me so well, you’ll know also what I studied as a concentration and which courses I took.
But I’m guessing that you just don’t like me and chose to express that by holding public information (my sociology degree) against me, whilst hiding behind your pathetic anonymity.
As for my “bias,” I am only human. That does not make my experiences in Morocco any less valid than anyone else’s - so while you can feel free to criticize my knowledge of Islam, and maybe rightly so, you cannot place a judgment like that on what I choose to write about in MY BLOG.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:01 am
Oh believe me, if you saw me wearing a bikini down the street, I think you’d care! I don’t even know what I mean by that. The Moroccan authorities would certainly care, or I’d be raped or at least grabbed all over within five seconds of walking out the door. The way men behave on the streets in Meknes is simply uncivilized.
The photo comment got tossed into the spam filter, but I rescued it!
Anyhow, those women in the first pic are Saharawi, I believe (not 100% sure). The second is much more typical, but I usually see more drab colors in Meknes (dark green, dark blue) rather than red.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:04 am
haha I’ve seen some crazy things in Germany! In USA, you might be raped, too. I don’t want to stereotype a group of people, so I won’t, but even men honk at me in their cars! Of course, they could just be making fun.. lol
I saw a woman here in Arkansas with a pink niqaab.
June 25th, 2007 at 9:58 am
As salamo alaikom wa rahmatullaahi wa barakatuh my brothers and sister of Islam and of other faiths. I am an American revert of 15 months. maa sha Allah. Allahu akbar. I want to say in the Quran Allah subhanahu wa ta ‘alaa says to cover the head. Which we do with hijab and it is obligatory. There is nothing in the Quran atating that Allah says to cover face and eyes. Niqaab is a choice that We Muslimahs have. I am growing slowly to wear niqaab. I give my greatest upmost respect to niqaabis. Especially to the ones in the USA due to 911. When I wear hijab I feel as though I am respecting my body and most of all….Allah subhanahu wa ta ‘alaa. As a niqaabi I feel I am respecting self and Allah subhanahu wa ta ‘alaa but also keeping my beauty for my future husband. It is a choice we have. We all are accountable for what we do. Remember my brothers and sisters Allah subhanahu wa ta ‘alaa is the only one that can judge.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:06 am
Oh I forgot to add this….
In many countries the young are not covering. They want to be westernized….be like the Europeans or Americans. In sha Allah, we must pray for our young brothers and sisters because they fall away from Islam. There are too many of our brothers and sisters being Europeanized or Americanized. They think being westernized is better for them than following there deen. I strongly disagree. Islam is beautiful and I have no regrets of my convertion. Allahu Akbar Allahu Akbar Allau Akbar. May Allah subhanahu wa ta ‘alaa forgive me for any wrong saying. astaghfiro Allah astaghfiro Allah astaghfiro Allah.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:51 am
“…hijab used to make me a little uncomfortable, but I’ve found a way to completely accept it because I understand it better, I have friends who make that choice, etc.
But covering one’s face is just something I can’t get my head around. It bothers me.”
I could have said that!!!
June 25th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
Dear Nicole. I never claimed to be all-knowing. Your post was quite rude. It seems you did not read so much of what I posted.
I said that there are many scholars who believe covering the face is obligatory. I also said that it is in the interpretation of one word in the Qur’an and that word is interpreteted differently by different scholars (surah an-nur). That is why a blanket statement of ‘niqaab is not obligatory/fard/wajib is not correct’. I am not saying the opposite either, that is the point! You don’t have to believe it, that is not a problem for me at all. You said you were Christian so it is even less of an issue for you.
As far as a Muslim woman marrying a Muslim man. OBVIOUSLY we have two different views on this. It is forbidden in Islam therefore the law is just fine for me. Does it limit choice? Again, obviously.
As I said, I was not laughing at you, just the whole idea of walking up to someone and telling them ‘I don’t want to be muslim’, it is a funny scenario. I also agreed with you it could differ from place to place but you are mad at my statement anyhow. Okay.
I don’t live in a village, I live in Agadir.
I do believe you really changed my words and I am sorry this has happened.
It boils down to me being Muslim and you not. We have a different opinion on things.
I believe the tasebnit you mentioned is the same as the haik (yes?) and that is very common in Agadir also. You surely see it daily on dozens of women. I find it impossible to wear and you need to keep so many clothes on underneath it I don’t get it.
Yahia, I said we did this because we care and we belive in a societal responsibility. Belive me I have lived both sides of the line here so I understand how you feel and what you are saying, I just disagree. I feel like my words that men have a responsibility keep getting ignored.
Onto the next post :-s
June 25th, 2007 at 1:43 pm
@ Rachel - the difference between Morocco and the US in that case is that in the US, if someone saw a man harassing a woman, he would probably intervene. In Morocco, it’s like a sport.
@ Barbara - Thank you for making me feel a little less of a freak for feeling that way!
@ Fadna - I don’t think the tasebnit and haik are the same thing - the haik was a traditionally Arab garment worn up north (well, Fez/Meknes anyway) until independence, but I think the tasebnit is a uniquely Amazigh garment. I could be wrong.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Yeah, I am not 100% sure. What is called haik here (Agadir)is like a sheet that is wrapped from head to toe. Like this…..
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/haik
June 25th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
Last one!!
I fixed my email. It was set so I could only receive messages from the addresses listed in my address file.
June 25th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
Ahh okay. I’ll send it again then.
June 25th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
Yeah, that’s the haik! Have you ever read Fatima Mernissi’s “Dreams of Trespass?” She talks about the haik and niqaab and how her mother first put on a see-through niqaab then stopped wearing it entirely, and the women marching through the streets…
Today is, of course, a different time, and women in Morocco are lucky enough to be permitted to make their own choices. There are still improvements to be made in other areas, but women’s rights in Morocco are coming along.
June 25th, 2007 at 9:29 pm
Fadna,
I apologize for being rude to you. I sincerely do not wish to be mean to anyone. I felt the statement about you having to laugh was a direct insult to me. Of course it’s crazy to go up to some police officer or governemnt official and say oh by the way im not Muslim and choose to be Christian or something. I was just using that as an example of how some Moroccans who choose to not be Muslim do not have the freedom to speak about it. I respect your decision to be Muslim and do not have any problems or judgment on what you choose to wear. Like I have said before, I have no room to judge others. I have made my fair share of mistakes (trust me). I just think we should sit back and learn from each other and not judge someone else for whatever they choose to believe.
June 26th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
I live in Uk and know many sisters who wear Niqaab, whether it is obligatory or not I am confused . I came to Islam late in life but have a longing to wear Niqaab. To make my life private?,definitely not to please my husband he has not converted-to get closer to Allah definitely.I don;t know why so many women here are choosing it. I only know I wish I was one of them. But wearing it has a responsibility, it should be a rule that if you wear it you make an effort to speak to someone new each day(women obvioulsy) to let all the non muslims know that under that piece of cloth is a person, someones mum, someones daughter a human being .Let them know we care about the same things they care about. Ignorance breeds fear and when I finally face the world covered I intend to make sure that no other person feels uncomfortable or afraid because of me. It is my country I am english I have no where else to go but that doesn’t give me the right to make others uncomfortable. I pray to Allah that he will give me the strength to dress to pleae him very soon.
June 26th, 2007 at 8:15 pm
To your last comment to me I have seen a Tunisian film and in the film it showed men harrassing women on the street. I find that unbelievable! I mean, I believe you, I just think for any culture to do that or accept it is just insane. But, I know that there are people here in the US like that, too, just not as bad/many. Aiwa!
June 26th, 2007 at 9:29 pm
@ Mardiyyah - Thanks for sharing that! Interesting viewpoint. And I agree - it really bothers me to hear people say “go back to your own country.” I can see why niqaab makes people uncomfortable, but obviously, that’s not the solution.
@ Rachel - Ha! I just walked home and was followed by a guy in a car the whole way, no matter which way I turned. He kept yelling “zweena, mademoiselle, zweena!” and making kissy noises. I think I threw up a little in my mouth.
June 28th, 2007 at 5:34 am
hahaha As my husband would say Ya Allah Rabbi’..